1984 CONVERSATIONS WITH RAY ROBINSON
San Francisco, CA– In one of a few conversations I had with the greatSugar Ray Robinson, Ray clearly indicated that he didnt think much of the current middleweight (160 lbs) champ Marvin Hagler. These conversations were six months after Hagler had narrowly defeated Roberto Duran. Ray, he used the term great to define two fighters at the time, one being Duran, the other his namesake Sugar Ray Leonard.
ROBINSON THE GREATEST! HAGLERS GREATNESS?
When I specifically brought up the status of Hagler, Ray who finished a 24 year career in 1965 at 173-19-6, with 108 KOs, put it like this. Hagler isnt yet a great fighter. Duran is, even though he got knocked out last night last night (Tommy Hearns), hes a great fighter. He almost beat Hagler last time. Durans a little guy compared to Hagler. I think he was out of shape, but that punch (Tommy Hearns threw) was beautiful. Switching the subject back to Hagler, something that I realized you had to do with Robinson, who would die less than five years later from Alzheimers disease.
RAY STILL HAD HIS WITS ABOUT HIM, Ray continued, Who did Hagler fight, other than Duran? The Englishman, (Alan Minter) he wasnt much. None of the guys that Hagler has fought have been great fighters. And he barely beat a rising welterweight (lightweight) champion (Duran). Hagler comes in good shape, he can fight, and hes a southpaw. I just dont know if hes a great fighter.
HARD LOOK AT MARVIN HAGLER
Lets take Ray Robinsons opinion of the 62-3-2, 52 KOs Hagler in another turn. Hagler would retire after losing on points to Sugar Ray Leonard in 1987. Hagler felt he had easily won the fight. Never once did he ever confront the fact that after giving away four of the first five, that all Ray would have to do win three more rounds and he wins 115-113 or 7-5 in rounds, just as myself and two judges thought.
THE HAGLER CORNER WASNT THAT GOOD?
Haglers corner and managerial team consisted of brothers Pat and Goody Petronelli. I remember after the 10th round or so them saying, Just keepin on doing what youre doing. The fight, any fight it is in reality a series of consecutive three minute fights with a minute to rest. And at the end of the night, Ray, whether he stole them with late flurries or not, in my mind Ray had won more two little fights, aka rounds than did Marvin.
LOOK AT HAGLERS MURDERERS ROW
OK, for those of you that seething that we call Marvins greatness into question, lets look at his resume. After winning the title he faced Mustapha Hamsho twice (44-5-2, 28 KOs), Fully Obel twice by TKO, Mustafa Hamsho TKO two times (52-5, 41 KOs), Tony Sibson TKO (55-7-1, 31 KOs), Caveman Lee TKO (23-4, 22 KOs), Wilfred Scypion TKO (32-9, 24 KOs), Juan Roldan TKO (67-5-2, 47 KOs), Vito Antuofermo TKO (50-7, 21 KOs), John Mugabi TKO (42-7-1, 39 KOs), Roberto Duran W 15 (103-16, 70 KOs), Thomas Hearns TKO (61-5-1, 48 KOs) and Ray Leonard L 12 (36-3-1, 25 KOs).
ARE THE DETRACTORS RIGHT ABOUT MARV?
Looking at the big picture, he stopped every guy (11) who tried to take his middleweight championship, with the lone exception being the 15 round unanimous decision he won over Duran in November 1983. Now take this into consideration, the only great fighters he fought were Leonard, Duran, and Hearns.
NOT A GREAT MIDDLE ON THE RESUME
Dont you think that to be propped up as one of the top three middleweight champions in history, that you should at least beat a great middleweight? Duran ascended from lightweight (135 lbs), while Leonard and Hearns, they both were welterweights at 147, Mugabi, even The Beast was a jr. middle (154). Fellow great middles like Carlos Monzon (87-3-9, 59 KOs), Robinson, they all fought middleweights. In closing, I was always of the opinion that Mike McCallum (49-5-1, 36 KO) would have beaten Marvin.
Pedro Fernandez
Note: Mr. Fernandez is an award-winning writer, TV commentator, radio talk show host, former San Francisco Policeman and four-time Golden Gloves champion. Comments regarding this submission can be left below.