Ray Robinson
1984 CONVERSATIONS WITH RAY ROBINSON
San Francisco, CA– In one of a number of conversations with the great Sugar Ray Robinson, Ray clearly indicated that he didn’t think much of then current middleweight (160 lbs.) champ Marvin Hagler. These conversations came six months after Hagler had narrowly defeated Roberto Duran. Ray. He used the term “great” to define two fighters at the time. One being Duran, the other his namesake Sugar Ray Leonard.
ROBINSON THE GREAT ON HAGLER’S GREATNESS?
When I specifically brought up the status of Hagler, Ray who finished a 24 year career in 1965 at 173-19-6, with 108 KOs put it like this. Hagler isn’t yet a great fighter. Duran is, even though he got knocked out last night (Tommy Hearns), a great fighter. He almost beat Hagler last time. Duran’s a little guy compared to Hagler. I think he was out of shape last night, but that punch (Tommy Hearns threw) was beautiful. Switching the subject back to Hagler, something that I realized you had to do with Robinson, who would die less than five years later from Alzheimer’s disease.
RAY STILL HAD HIS WITS ABOUT HIM
Ray continued, “Who did Hagler fight, other than Duran? The Englishman (Alan Minter) wasn’t much. None of the guys that Hagler has fought have been great fighters. And he barely beat a rising welterweight (lightweight) champion (Duran). Hagler comes in good shape, he can fight, and he’s a southpaw. I just don’t know if he’s a great fighter, yet.”
HARD LOOK AT MARVIN HAGLER
Lets take Ray Robinson’s opinion of Hagler (62-3-2, 52 KOs) in another direction. Hagler would retire after losing on points to Sugar Ray Leonard in 1987. Hagler felt he had easily won the fight. Never once did he ever confront the fact that after giving away four of the first five, that all Ray would have to do was snag three more rounds and he wins 115-113 or 7-5 in rounds, just as myself and one judge thought. The unnamed jurist that had it 118-110 for Leonard, clearly did not bring his A game that night.
LOU FILIPPO HAD IT FOR HAGLER
Los Angeles referee/judge Lou Filippo had things 115-113 for Hagler. While Lou was sitting next to Hall of Fame referee Marty “The Sheriff” Denkin, he spelled out why he thought Hagler won. “He forced the fight and landed harder punches,” was exactly how the late referee put it.
HAGLER CORNER WASNT GOOD
Hagler’s corner and managerial team consisted of two brothers in Pat and Goody Petronelli. I remember after the 10th round or so them saying, “Just keep on doing what you’re doing, Marv.” Trouble was, Marv wasn’t doing enough in my mind.
EXPLAINING PROFESSIONAL BOXING 101
Today’s title fights are in reality a series of 12 consecutive three minute fights with a minute rest. And at the end of the night, Ray, whether he stole them with late flurries or not in my mind Ray had won two more little fights, aka rounds than did Marvin.
LOOK AT HAGLER’S MURDERERS ROW
OK, for those of you that seething that we call Marvin’s greatness into question, let’s look at his resume. After winning the title he faced Mustapha Hamsho (44-5-3, 28 KOs) twice TKOs, Fully Obel (52-5, 41 KOs) twice by TKO, Tony Sibson TKO (55-7-1, 31 KOs), Caveman Lee KO (23-4, 22 KOs), Wilfred Scypion TKO (32-9, 24 KOs), Juan Roldan TKO (67-5-2, 47 KOs), Vito Antuofermo TKO (50-7, 21 KOs), John Mugabi TKO (42-7-1, 39 KOs), Roberto Duran W 15 (103-16, 70 KOs), Thomas Hearns TKO (61-5-1, 48 KOs) and Ray Leonard L 12 (36-3-1, 25 KOs).
DETRACTORS RIGHT ABOUT MARV?
Looking at the big picture, he stopped every guy (11) who tried to take his middleweight championship, with the lone exception being the 15 round unanimous decision he won over Duran in November 1983. Now take this into consideration, the only great fighters he fought were Leonard, Duran, and Hearns.
NOT A GREAT MIDDLE ON RESUME
Dont you think that to be propped up as one of the top three middleweight champions in history, that you should at least have beaten one great middleweight? Duran ascended from lightweight (135), while Leonard and Hearns, they both were welterweights at 147. Mugabi, even “The Beast” was a jr. middle (154). Fellow middleweight king Carlos Monzon (87-3-9, 59 KOs), like Robinson fought primarily middleweights. In closing, I was always of the opinion that Mike McCallum (49-5-1, 36 KO) of Jamiaca would have beaten Marvin, Tommy, possibly even Ray and Duran.
Pedro Fernandez
Note: Mr. Fernandez is an award-winning writer, TV commentator, radio talk show host, former San Francisco Policeman and four-time Golden Gloves champion. Comments regarding this submission can be left below.
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SUGAR RAY ROBINSON ON MARVIN HAGLER